Meeting+Minutes+(2010.10.15-16)

=2010.10.15 and 2010.10.16= (After hours restaurant meetup notes from Friday night - 10/15)


 * Mission Statement More formalized Group (Name/Identity)
 * ID of humans stewarding this process in the region
 * Financial Model
 * Sustainability Scope Framework from other groups working in the realm What value do WE bring? What purpose do we serve? Age- appropriate? Who needs to be involved? Magna Carta? Virtual Democracy Some part private (Passport restrictions?) Phases of mental adoption toward free and autonomous avatars What are avatar rights? How do digital rights exist autonomous to physical human rights? How do multiple identities play into the equation? What do we expect of citizens to participate in supporting democracy? Bill of avatar rights? VW Constitiution- How would this exist outside or along the physical world, regulations and norms?

= = =Saturday (10/16) Notes=


 * Present in carbon form:**
 * Paula Ascher
 * Jonathon Richter
 * Monica Marlo
 * Rebecca Reiniger
 * Jim Bailey
 * Daniel Patterson
 * Eric Smith
 * Jon Dorbolo
 * Kimmy Hescock

Our planning is meant to keep a global perspective

Lets define the process between sims from a global management perspective. We don’t define any restrictions to what individual groups would do at the interface. Autonomous local building and delivery choices is key.

We need an abstract layer that doesn’t marry us to any individual end user client.

Hypergrid for example is tryng to work so that multi-sim travel is possible, so we may not need to focus on this.

Jonathon talked to AJ last night re: Auckland group (AJ has been running this state side) They are willing to share templates, systems design, etc. What the Auckland group is doing is setting up standards that may marry with our goals.

Three things that we need to define
 * Communications**: “My ideas get to you” - how does communication happen? Do we have meta-grid communication systems? We want to be able to talk to anyone that has set up the protocol (permissions based) to communicate across sims.


 * Individual Movement Cabability**: “ My presence is with you” we should be able to visit each other across sims. There needs to be some kind of permissions leveling available for this. This is communication at the visual level- whatever information you now open me to visually see and interact with visually.


 * Transferrable/Share-able content**: “ I can share with you” -Our items would be able to be freely transferred and capable of collaborating with each other


 * Vetting**: The way Auckland has been doing this is a trust based relationship- if we trust an institution’s vetting, then we trust it and don’t have to centralize or track this in any way. For example, tracking an avatars name to a real name would be left up to the individual institution.


 * Permissions**: there should be access permissions capable of supporting any age groups use.

IN a sense, we’re defining embassy ports. The individual embassies are universities.colleges.k-12ed groups, they define the vetting to set their own local policies.

For example- the lowest level of communication- chat- the requirements for youth are highly restrictive, we have to protect our young users. We have to have protocols that support users at an age appropriate level.

Voice- the next level

Video- This is where we start running into cyber security- (B. Endicott)

Co-Presence- we are in the same space, so protections are put in place to

Interchangeable Artifacts (3D objects, scripts, any data that is transferable from one space to another.)

Then, what your mission is shouldn’t matter at all- but you do need to be very clear with the outside world what you are. If we’re going out as a bunch of educators saying we’re going to allow for profit porn sites to use this, well.. how do we decide who we allow and who we dont? Tend to err on the side of allowing everyone, but transparency is required.

But this should be an education specific space- allowing porn for example is something some of us are uncomfortable with, while some in the group want to say its OK as long as you are transparent. But there is possibly for example a legitimate reason pornography addiction studies- where do we define the line of what is appropriate.

All of our institutions already have acceptable use policies- we aren’t going to effect those, and those policies address the issues we are discussing. So each institution should be able to define by its own standards what their acceptable use policy is and have the opportunity to set up embassy type policies to support local AUP & TOS agreements each has with its local population.

LL tried to be everything under the sun and then add education as an addendum- we think our purpose is education from K to grey and it needs to be front and center. We dont care if other disagreeing folks come into play, but we want to be clear that we are developing this to have educational resonance. If we make this too broad, open and easy it may lose its education focus. If you want to do something that is possibly objectionable, you would need a rider- someone who is willing to sponsor you- someone in the educational “fedaration”- convince them to take you in under their umbrella and take the risk that you are who you say you aren and abide by all these rules. Its a semi-permeable membrane.

AUPs are legal liability protection for the university. That’s very different from the filtering that happens at the K-12 level. So there are two different things- liability( losing funding, embarrassment, getting sued) to are we going to police this? Two different questions.

Who has permissions to add people to the group? How is this decision process executed? If this group is permission based, is it based on an educational institution (and what we define as such) and its credentials? If its strictly an educational grid, and then ed organizations are the users that bring people in, we again go back to whatever the entities local stated requirements and a level of permissions system. For example, a university may want to for whatever reason sponsor a group to participate, but having some kind of connection to ed groups to participate is key. The challenge here- what is an education group? We may already have a model for defining this in how the federal govt. defines it.

How does a museum join? Much discussion re: how do we decide who can play?

Three levels again: Chat People Objects

Creative Commons model has resonance with this group- Copy left? For example, if you are a non-profit and your primary mission is education, that’s a different animal than a textbook publisher.

K-12 for example, they would have to be in control of where their students would be able to visit.

A resources region- everyone would have access to this; analogous to the Second Life freebie areas, though for us content would be vetted (so we’re not giving giant penises to our students... unless they are anatomically correct and used as biology models? ;))

Over here, we may have a services grid attached- these folks may be non or for profit groups that provide educational services to everyone else. The issue comes back to who decides who gets to connect to this?



We’ve been talking about four general areas: 1) Marketplace - The commons 2) Evidence-Based Learning 3) Skunkworks 4) Kid Safety Technical Organizational (Inter, Intra, Supra)

The invitation is open for us to take part in the conversation on a global level, and we intend to utilize our shared group knowledge and resources to participate in this process. We are not meaning to break out and make our own solution be “the choice”; in fact, we are happy to model the work of others as they have been deeply thinking about policies and procedures. We aren’t making decisions in isolation, but weare creating our own entity here. (Is this Oregon? Northwest?)

Regarding individual organization- there are no anonymous users on this grid. There is a real identity for each user on this grid. Education institutions and partners are the ones through their own registration and vetting systems to be responsible for their = = =Online- Blended Meeting Notes:**=

Avatars Present:

 * Wrenaria Antiesse
 * Benny Beaver
 * Wainbrave Bernal
 * MonicaMarlo Martinek
 * Profdan Netizen
 * Robin Mochi
 * Shandily Wycliffe
 * Ruby Sol
 * Olivia Hotshot

Transcript:
[10:20] Ruby Sol: ya, she is sitting next to me, she is going to fix a couple of things first [10:21] Robin Mochi: hi monica :) [10:21] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Howdy :) Am out in body taking notes, backianbit [10:22] Robin Mochi: whew, this seat feels right :) [10:22] Ruby Sol: robin, we are talking about a possible opensim solution for nw education area [10:22] Robin Mochi: great [10:22] Robin Mochi: would that be along with SL or in place of SL? [10:25] Ruby Sol: can you hear through my mic robin? [10:26] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I’m all about transparency, and will add anyone to the notes doc that wants to be. I’m not sure the whole group is OK with publishing publicly yet so I won't go that far, but what is your gmail addy? [10:26] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I'll add you, you're here with us (I wish! :)) [10:27] Robin Mochi: I'm here!! [10:28] Ruby Sol: can you hear us robin [10:28] Robin Mochi: yes [10:28] Robin Mochi: yep [10:28] Robin Mochi: hello all! [10:28] Robin Mochi: Hey! [10:28] Robin Mochi: are others going to join us inworld? [10:28] Ruby Sol: i think so [10:28] Robin Mochi: k [10:29] Robin Mochi: I want to get some snapshots [10:29] Robin Mochi: lol [10:29] Robin Mochi: oh, no...let me get that [10:29] Robin Mochi: how about this one... [10:29] Robin Mochi: rashford at george fox dot edu [10:32] Robin Mochi: are others coming inworld from the oied group? [10:33] Robin Mochi: I want more avis in my snapshots - lol [10:36] Robin Mochi: ok [10:45] Robin Mochi: ruby, can you tell us who is speaking in RL? [10:45] Zotarah Shepherd: How many are in the RL meeting? [10:45] Ruby Sol: eric smith from soccoco is leaving at this point [10:45] Olivia Hotshot: there were about 20 Zo. [10:45] Ruby Sol: that is monica [10:46] Zotarah Shepherd: My sim is out of my own pocket so I can't afford it anyway. To pay twice as much is a deal breaker. [10:46] Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks Olivia [10:46] Wainbrave Bernal: shall we discuss the past two days of the OiED conference and then discuss our forum this morning? [10:46] Olivia Hotshot: sounds good Jonathon [10:49] Wainbrave Bernal: so here's the schedule that we worked from: http://immersiveeddays.uoregon.edu/schedule/ [10:49] Robin Mochi: thx for link [10:49] Robin Mochi: oh, that's schedule... [10:49] Robin Mochi: sending wiki link? [10:50] Wainbrave Bernal: http://immersiveoregon2010.wikispaces.com/ [10:50] Robin Mochi: thx! [10:50] Wainbrave Bernal: So we had a great group of Oregon virtual educators gather here at the University of Oregon [10:50] Wainbrave Bernal: in the Collaboration Center (appropriately enough ;) [10:51] Wainbrave Bernal: and we used the "unconference" format [10:51] Wainbrave Bernal: and encouraged people to use the hashtag #oied2010 [10:51] Wainbrave Bernal: and the wiki [10:52] Robin Mochi: hi Kimmy/Wrenaria! [10:52] Wrenaria Antiesse: hey hey [10:52] Wainbrave Bernal: with the idea that folks participate actively throughout these several days [10:52] Wainbrave Bernal: So some themes and highlights... [10:52] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Notes from the last couple days if anyone is interesed http://bit.ly/cvswVE [10:52] Olivia Hotshot: heyya wren [10:53] Wainbrave Bernal: anyone who presented or attended who is here now... [10:53] Robin Mochi: wow, thanks for the notes, monica [10:53] Wainbrave Bernal: please speak up [10:53] Wainbrave Bernal: anyone? [10:53] MonicaMarlo Martinek: happy to help. Typing helps me focus on what is being said, so its win win [10:54] Wainbrave Bernal: the migration from Second Life was one oft discussed topic [10:54] Olivia Hotshot: Thanks! [10:54] Olivia Hotshot: my gmail addy is slightly different than my univ one [10:54] Beaver Frenzy entered chat-range [chatRange/.subEngines B] [10:54] Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks hehe [10:54] Robin Mochi: hi benny beav! [10:54] Wainbrave Bernal: The Beav! [10:54] Olivia Hotshot: hehehe [10:54] Beaver Frenzy: Hiyho everyone! [10:54] Olivia Hotshot: love it [10:55] MonicaMarlo Martinek: woot! Go Beavs! [10:55] Olivia Hotshot: going to grab some photos [10:55] MonicaMarlo Martinek: May you win your football game today [10:55] Robin Mochi: benny, who are you? [10:55] Beaver Frenzy: Benny is Jon Dorbolo (OSU) - better you didn't catch that [10:55] Robin Mochi: ahhhh [10:55] Robin Mochi: LOL [10:55] Robin Mochi: should have known... [10:56] Zotarah Shepherd: ? [10:56] Beaver Frenzy: :-) [10:56] Zotarah Shepherd: Voice is breaking up [10:57] Beaver Frenzy: "busy as a beaver" is the operant phrase [10:57] Robin Mochi: LOL [10:57] MonicaMarlo Martinek: we’ll be typing to keep it in world Zotarah [10:57] Zotarah Shepherd: Thanks [10:57] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Paula is removing the mic [10:57] Olivia Hotshot: ok [10:58] Wainbrave Bernal: one major theme we converged on over the past few days was the need for us in the NorthWest to collaborate [10:58] Wainbrave Bernal: the complexity and need is just great enough [10:59] Wainbrave Bernal: - we dutifully wish to include Northern California in this region too, Olivia and Zo [10:59] Wainbrave Bernal: :) [10:59] Olivia Hotshot: Yay! [10:59] Olivia Hotshot: and ty [10:59] Robin Mochi: :) [10:59] Wainbrave Bernal: Montana [10:59] MonicaMarlo Martinek: :) All the way out to Montana [10:59] Wainbrave Bernal: Idaho [10:59] Wainbrave Bernal: Oregon [10:59] Wainbrave Bernal: Washington [11:00] Wainbrave Bernal: ... [11:00] Wainbrave Bernal: and we've as of today [11:00] Beaver Frenzy: Yes, NorCal of course! [11:00] Wainbrave Bernal: decided to officially start to work on a group [11:00] Wainbrave Bernal: to develop a set of interoperable standards and an agreement [11:00] Robin Mochi: is there a name for this group? [11:00] Wainbrave Bernal: that will work with each institution [11:00] MonicaMarlo Martinek: good question Robin [11:01] Wainbrave Bernal: well that did come up [11:01] Wainbrave Bernal: but not yet [11:01] MonicaMarlo Martinek: mayhaps that is a task to brainstorm on the wiki asynchronously then come back next month and discuss what we come up wiht? [11:01] Wainbrave Bernal: NW Virtual Federation of Awesome? [11:01] Robin Mochi: yeah, we may need to think about a good name...maybe throw out ideas on the wiki? or somewhere? [11:01] MonicaMarlo Martinek: love it :) [11:01] Robin Mochi: awesome, like that word in there - LOL [11:01] Beaver Frenzy: Virtopia [11:01] Wrenaria Antiesse: i like wainbraves name lol ;D [11:02] Olivia Hotshot: Merry Hipsters? Given we were just in Eugene? =D [11:02] Beaver Frenzy: ha [11:02] Wainbrave Bernal: so we're open to brainstorming up something [11:03] Wainbrave Bernal: but pointedly.... [11:03] Wainbrave Bernal: we need people with the skills and energy willing to commit to working on crafting this set of documents [11:03] Wainbrave Bernal: that will allow us to work together and with the larger grid [11:04] Shandily Wycliffe: I dont have skills, but glad to volunteer [11:04] MonicaMarlo Martinek: So lets say this- there are likley folks who arent with us today who were present at Oied2010 who may wan to add their name ideas to the pot as well, does putting this as a task on the wiki to fill a page with ideas and come back and discuss next meeting? [11:04] Wainbrave Bernal: the technical requirements [11:04] MonicaMarlo Martinek: and even folks who werent present but wish they could be. [11:04] Wainbrave Bernal: the needed permissions to allow K-12 and 13 - 20 to play and learn appropriately [11:04] Beaver Frenzy: open is good [11:05] Wainbrave Bernal: and yes! we want to make this open to folks who weren't present for OiED to join us [11:05] Beaver Frenzy: virtualization wants to be free [11:05] MonicaMarlo Martinek: permissions being locally driven was a pretty important task for us I think, that way we aren't dictating for each other what those are, since that is a pretty impossible.imposing task anyway [11:05] Robin Mochi: yes! [11:06] Wainbrave Bernal: so if you want to be part of this from the groundfloor... [11:06] Wainbrave Bernal: send me an email jonathonrichter at gmail dot com [11:06] Wainbrave Bernal: and i'll add you to the mail list [11:06] Wainbrave Bernal: and we'll get going [11:07] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Jonathon is talking with Kimmy re: how do we keep this convo going and make it open [11:07] Wainbrave Bernal: so we have that wiki [11:07] Wainbrave Bernal: which is publically viewable [11:07] Wainbrave Bernal: but by invite only to develop [11:07] MonicaMarlo Martinek: listserv and wiki are being mentioned (sorry, Jonathon, you started getting verbal, trying to include everyone in the convo) [11:07] Wainbrave Bernal: those who wish to participate in the Consortium [11:07] Robin Mochi: thx for the text, monica [11:07] Wainbrave Bernal: will be auto invited [11:08] MonicaMarlo Martinek: :) [11:08] Wainbrave Bernal: and we'll start a listserv [11:08] Wrenaria Antiesse: and we could put the listserv information on the wiki when it's established? [11:08] Wainbrave Bernal: to keep conversation going too [11:08] MonicaMarlo Martinek: thats a good idea. [11:08] Wrenaria Antiesse: for those that want to join [11:08] Wainbrave Bernal: that will be for Members Only [11:08] Robin Mochi: yes [11:08] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I like the idea that if you go to the wiki, even if we use other tools, you know how to get to everything else. [11:08] Wainbrave Bernal: and then - a Google Docs site for Members Only [11:08] Wainbrave Bernal: should cover it, eh? [11:08] Wrenaria Antiesse: agreed Monica [11:08] MonicaMarlo Martinek: some centralization of our efforts, that way we can be flexible an duse whatever is wanted. [11:09] Robin Mochi: wait...what is the google docs part for? I may have missed that [11:09] MonicaMarlo Martinek: well, our wiki is public and free. [11:09] MonicaMarlo Martinek: to be private costs, [11:09] Wainbrave Bernal: we then have a public face on who we are and what's currently in place [11:09] MonicaMarlo Martinek: but Gdocs gives us privacy if wanted or needed without a fee. [11:09] Robin Mochi: ok [11:10] Wainbrave Bernal: the google docs would be for storing sharing files that would be useful for Members Only to share internally [11:10] MonicaMarlo Martinek: note: we'll be saving a transcript of this for our notes, just to let everyone know. [11:10] Robin Mochi: ah, makes sense [11:10] Wainbrave Bernal: and the wiki is our public space [11:10] Shandily Wycliffe: such as technical specs [11:10] Wrenaria Antiesse: can keep the google docs organized in folder under our currently nonexistant name to keep it manageable [11:10] Zotarah Shepherd: I have to switch avs [11:10] Wainbrave Bernal: of course, when we get OpenSim or other platforms going we may want a site for us all to meet on too [11:10] MonicaMarlo Martinek: will do. [11:10] Olivia Hotshot: ty vm [11:11] MonicaMarlo Martinek: :) I understand completely. [11:11] Beaver Frenzy: So many account authentications, so little time [11:11] MonicaMarlo Martinek: hehe [11:11] MonicaMarlo Martinek: its all about the authentication layer, alas. [11:11] Olivia Hotshot: heh [11:11] Shandily Wycliffe: I will create an opensim place for folks to play, if you want to be invited send me an email [11:11] MonicaMarlo Martinek: whoah, Zotarah, two of you ish at once! [11:12] Wainbrave Bernal: Jim Bailey is volunteering as a member on the Technical Working Group for this [11:12] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Shandily is saying she is willing to be co-collaborator on technical aspects [11:12] Wainbrave Bernal: others? [11:12] MonicaMarlo Martinek: (what Wainbrave said.) [11:13] MonicaMarlo Martinek: mixed reality, there has to be a better way to do this. [11:13] Olivia Hotshot: brb - breaking up a dog wrestling match and the little one is beating up the big one [11:13] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Also, Eric from Sococo before he left volunteered their tool to help us solve some communciations challenges we may have. [11:13] Wainbrave Bernal: Big Dog / Little Dog [11:13] Robin Mochi: I will be speaking with my dean of SOE this coming week to find out what our future invovlement will be in SL....I'll know more about any roles I can be involved in after that [11:14] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Sococo may help us have cross sim comm with permissions levels right away for example. [11:14] Beaver Frenzy: anyone planning to try out the sococco product? [11:14] Shandily Wycliffe: I really like the sococo tools and think we should use them [11:14] Shandily Wycliffe: me, me!! [11:14] Robin Mochi: I will be taking a close look at sococco too [11:14] Beaver Frenzy: I'm planning on trying in in my courses [11:14] MonicaMarlo Martinek: They were quick about letting me know about Mac availability. :) [11:14] Wainbrave Bernal: as per working with two larger external groups and getting our emerging grid to work with them, I'm volunteering to act as a liaison to the Immersive Education Group and the Auckland, NZ group both working on creating Education Grid potential [11:14] Wainbrave Bernal: ... [11:14] Robin Mochi: mainly for distance learners for a number of purposes...may or may not be related to replacement for VWs [11:15] Robin Mochi: that was sococco I was referring to last [11:15] Wainbrave Bernal: so I'll try to get documents and specs from them that we can use, compare, make use of ourselves [11:15] Olivia Hotshot: back [11:15] MonicaMarlo Martinek: agreed Robin, a tool with its own affordances (which are pretty awesome) and I was talking to Paula and saying we do lose 90 percent in churn for whatever reason right? Sococo may have changed the model to work for more people, yet still get some of the affordances of copresence [11:16] Shandily Wycliffe: if you could put their docs up on google, that would be wonderful wainbrave [11:16] Wainbrave Bernal: and hopefully we can come up with a system that will allow us to tap into their grid while maintaining the integrity we set up [11:16] Robin Mochi: exactly monica [11:17] MonicaMarlo Martinek: (we were all temporarily distracted by folks walking very slowly outside in the zen garden- a meditation exercise, odd to watch out of context... ) [11:17] Olivia Hotshot: hehe [11:17] Robin Mochi: lol [11:17] Wainbrave Bernal: So.... [11:17] Beaver Frenzy: May we have a Virtualry (virtual sanctuary) for vetted projects that lose funding, space, etc? Even if they are not in the regional locales? [11:18] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Shandily asked me to clarify the 90 percent churn statement- I meant the started accounts vs continued use in SL, NOT our group and its current dialog ;) [11:18] Olivia Hotshot: good idea Beav [11:18] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Oooh, I like that Beav. [11:18] MonicaMarlo Martinek: some way to know your efforts wont go poof [11:18] MonicaMarlo Martinek: And if we arent paying retail for that space, much more likely. [11:19] Wainbrave Bernal: we definitely need a way of storing educational assets created by groups and Beav's idea is great - a place to provide for orgs building capacity who haven't yet received funding and for those with viable projects who no longer are funded [11:19] Beaver Frenzy: I heard mentions of highly developed projects that are in danger of folding from the SL changes. Ouch. [11:19] Wainbrave Bernal: yup [11:20] Olivia Hotshot: Beav, i think that is a reality. i know of a few who are radically downsizing [11:20] Wainbrave Bernal: We might be able to open our doors to folks if they're willing to be vetted [11:21] MonicaMarlo Martinek: vetting was a hot topic this morning- though we seem to all agree we should be ed focused, how to define who and what is ed focused was a discussion that took a while. No conclusions yet. [11:21] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Wainbrave and Shandily are talking about how to start ramping up [11:22] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Wainbrave posted a phase based model (in notes from Thursday) [11:22] Beaver Frenzy: TAC offered Daniel and Rebecca a chance to collab with Beaver Island. My hope is that we can offset some of their space needs but also so that we can offer them an institutional affiliation from which to make propose grants, etc. [11:22] MonicaMarlo Martinek: that could be used to show that we are in our pre phase, but we do have space to use and explore. [11:22] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Jim (Shandily) also says we have space on OpenSim [11:23] Wainbrave Bernal: so in the preliminary stage... here, as we don't yet have an intra instutional agreement [11:23] Robin Mochi: excuse me folks, I just took a screenshot with SL names showing [11:23] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Beav is adding that "the real estate means nothing- what we really want to get to is where we can hire programmers- the space is nothing, we need people, but its a hard one to get through." [11:23] Robin Mochi: good to hear that about Daniel and REbecca, Beav [11:24] Olivia Hotshot: been getting photos too [11:24] MonicaMarlo Martinek: (and after notes are posted if you want to edit you can always remove, they will be on the Wiki.) [11:24] Robin Mochi: great, thx, monica [11:24] MonicaMarlo Martinek: mixed reality events, exciting, but challenging. [11:25] Robin Mochi: I did take one screen shot folks which shows your SL names, is that okay to upload to flickr? permission from all or I will not upload [11:25] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I like how you look like your meditating on the fire, Benny. [11:25] Wainbrave Bernal: so if we can think about strategies for Preliminary Stage, Entry Stage, etc - how can we steward the development of this and how to get folks working within it? [11:25] Beaver Frenzy: Honestly, most of my experiences seem to be "mixed-reality". I do love the phrase. [11:25] Profdan Netizen: ok with me [11:25] Wrenaria Antiesse: robin: fine with me [11:25] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Is there a model for dev of distributed groups we could follow? [11:25] Wainbrave Bernal: ok by me, Robin [11:25] Zotarah Citron: Ok with me [11:25] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Shirky's croudsourcing, for example? Not saying thats it... [11:25] Olivia Hotshot: me too [11:25] Wainbrave Bernal: There's Open Source Dev [11:25] Wainbrave Bernal: as a model [11:26] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I like it, a good place to start with some model thats worked for others, and then mash what we need out of it. [11:26] Wainbrave Bernal: Our research in collaboration with distance-based groups [11:26] Robin Mochi: thx all...how about if it's not okay to post on flikr that you send me an IM and let me know that [11:27] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Great point WB. [11:27] Robin Mochi: yes, wainbrave [11:27] MonicaMarlo Martinek: thanks Robin, I'll send you my shots if you like [11:27] Robin Mochi: great, monica, I'll create a set on flickr [11:27] MonicaMarlo Martinek: TY [11:28] Olivia Hotshot: mine will be on flickr too [11:28] Robin Mochi: maybe once we have a name for this group, I'll create a group on flickr and anyone can join the group and add snapshots that way too [11:28] MonicaMarlo Martinek: wb Ruby [11:29] MonicaMarlo Martinek: good idea. [11:29] Wrenaria Antiesse: good idea robin [11:30] Wainbrave Bernal: ok - let's talk a few next steps... concrete things we can do to move fwd [11:30] MonicaMarlo Martinek: So its 11:30, we have about a half hour left officially.. it sounds like we have identified at least one of our goals- brainstorm a name, add ideas to wiki for next meeting [11:30] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Sounds like we also have the idea that we can use Opensource dev model for our group development model [11:30] Wainbrave Bernal: monica is amazingly fast to respond [11:30] MonicaMarlo Martinek: :) hyperfingers. [11:31] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I tank ;) [11:31] Beaver Frenzy: One thing to watch out for. This whole discussion is nearly identical to the efforts of educators regarding the web in 95-97. Some of the exact same issues. By 1988, all the mjor conferences (Educause, etc) were all about revenue models, etc. That's when the institutional boundaries went right back up. Even higher given secure servers. These days it is hard to even look at one another's web courses. My point is: watch out for success as it may be quickly appropriated by the bean counters. [11:31] Beaver Frenzy: "1998" [11:32] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Jonathon is saying he is on the board for the Open Wonderland platform, and though its not a viable platform for many things, he would still like to see the group try the software and get some use cases going. They have some critical gates to pass through for it to be a useful platform, but it shows a lot of promise.. and nice to compare systems. [11:32] MonicaMarlo Martinek: A great point Bucky. At the CC level, I tend to not think of the profit model much. [11:32] MonicaMarlo Martinek: so feel a bit ignorant in the conversation. [11:32] Beaver Frenzy: TAC wants to go Wonderland asap. [11:33] MonicaMarlo Martinek: So listing that we are interested in not just one platform, but rather ubiquity of our motions so they are applicable to virtual spaces rather than any given platform- is that right? [11:33] Olivia Hotshot: is wonderland still PC specific? [11:33] Robin Mochi: for some reason I thought Wonderland was dead [11:34] Beaver Frenzy: MMM. Right. We idealists and techoids will go blithely along making the world better. Let's beware the ROI ambush. [11:34] Olivia Hotshot: i think for the most part it is - or so i also though [11:34] Wainbrave Bernal: no... Sun Microsystems' Project Wonderland was cut by Oracle [11:34] Olivia Hotshot: t [11:34] MonicaMarlo Martinek: its now moving at the pace of open source. [11:34] Wainbrave Bernal: then it became the Open Wonderland Foundation [11:34] Wainbrave Bernal: and they're seeking ways to develop the open source community [11:35] Robin Mochi: ah, thanks for clarification on Open Wonderland [11:35] Beaver Frenzy: Geeez. Oracle went nuts, eh? Also cutting ed pricing for Sun servers. [11:35] Wainbrave Bernal: and cutting Project Darkstar - gaming server [11:35] Wainbrave Bernal: (it also is now open source) [11:35] Beaver Frenzy: Is cutting Educational discount an industry trend? [11:35] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Geez, I hope not. [11:36] Shandily Wycliffe: so, what do we want to accomplish in the remaining 25 minutes [11:36] Beaver Frenzy: I thought oracles were supposed to look ahead! [11:36] MonicaMarlo Martinek: though that would definitely press us all into being more willing to take on the free open source puppy and nurture it ;) [11:36] Wainbrave Bernal: retooling and getting more efficient is a mantra now in industry with the economic conditions - so education, nonprofits, etc are definitely in the crosshairs of blind marksmen [11:36] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Do we meetingwizard to pick our next meeting date or decide on a likley date now? [11:37] Wainbrave Bernal: doodle.com [11:37] MonicaMarlo Martinek: like, is it once a month on the third Saturday or .... [11:37] Robin Mochi: yes, love doodle [11:37] Beaver Frenzy: Is Wonderland API available? Can we put an instance on our secret server loike next week? [11:38] Beaver Frenzy: Nice pix Olivia :-) [11:38] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I think so Beav. [11:38] Wainbrave Bernal: http://www.openwonderland.org/ [11:38] Olivia Hotshot: =D if anyone didn't get a copy tell me and will resend [11:38] Beaver Frenzy: It's history [11:39] Wainbrave Bernal: I can also get some folks in the Wonderland dev community to assist us [11:39] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Shan, a good question, what else do we need to cover in our remaining time? [11:39] Wainbrave Bernal: on installation, issues [11:41] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Wainbrave and Beav are talking about getting an open wonderland instance installed at OSU, but Beav needs to check with the Dam at OSU for official word re: if he could open that or not. [11:41] MonicaMarlo Martinek: We are also thinking this would be an appropriate tech to talk to OSUOSL about when we meet with Greg L-C [11:41] Zotarah Citron: Have you considered Reaction Grid or InWorldz? [11:41] Zotarah Citron: Or Education Grid? [11:42] Beaver Frenzy: I feel that TAC would like to host an OpenWonderland instance for use by this group. I need to look into our local issues, but I don't see huge obstacles. [11:42] Wainbrave Bernal: I'd like people to scan the environment - both internally at your institutions and externally across the web, etc to come up with resources we can list that may be useful for our organization and growth [11:42] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I thnk our hope is that no matter what you would choose (reaction grid, inWorldz, etc.) what we would like to ideally have is some way to bridge those spaces, making comm across the sims instances into other worlds even possible. [11:42] Robin Mochi: yes, zotarah C [11:42] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I know, nothing like a lofty goal :) [11:43] Robin Mochi: heh, that would be wonderful, Monica [11:43] Olivia Hotshot: They are all commercial grids .... i think we are speaking of a private instance? [11:43] Olivia Hotshot: or am i off base? [11:43] MonicaMarlo Martinek: there is always good reason to support freedom of choice, imho. [11:43] MonicaMarlo Martinek: each system has its own affordances. [11:43] Wainbrave Bernal: Hey Zotarah, yes - we are hoping to partner with a lot of folks friendly to education - corporate, non-profit, gov, etc [11:44] Shandily Wycliffe: but, no reason that we could not accept connections with hosted services, some schools might not have teh abilty to host themselves [11:44] Olivia Hotshot: true [11:45] MonicaMarlo Martinek: and honestly I don’t think we know yet the reasons why an institution would go one way or another [11:45] Zotarah Citron: It would be nice to all go to one place or have a central place to communicate with other educators [11:46] Olivia Hotshot: That is where intergridding helps a lot - to provide the means to collaborate but not to have to be on the same grid [11:46] Robin Mochi: I'm at work and my next appt is here, must run all, I will be checking the documentation and will report back once I know where my SOE and others from GFU stand on all this...bye now and thank you all! [11:46] Zotarah Citron: There are non-profits that are educational in nature too who will need to move who could collaborate with educators on another grid. [11:46] Olivia Hotshot: Bye Robin! Great to meet you these past days [11:46] MonicaMarlo Martinek: It seems immersive ed initiative (and other groups) are addressing many of the issues we face- maybe another task is to collect what is already being done out there so we know who is involved and where they are at with their own development of ideas. [11:46] Wrenaria Antiesse: bye robin! [11:46] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Bye Robin! [11:47] Zotarah Citron: Immersive Ed is working on the Education Grid from the info they sent out. [11:47] Zotarah Citron: Bye Robin [11:47] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Wainbrave is saying that the iED view is a bit technical, can be slow, we're interested in focusing on the human level where the rubber meets the road. [11:47] Zotarah Citron: I see [11:48] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Beaver is saying if were going to focus on an ed bent- then we start with something like a list of the educational objectives.... [11:48] Zotarah Citron: I would like to see sims where students could experience many subjects and builds, so each institution does not have to reeinvent the wheel. [11:49] Profdan Netizen: That's the benefit of a more mature communities in SL. Having the same in opensims would make it competitive. [11:49] Zotarah Citron: Yes [11:49] Shandily Wycliffe: yes, collaboration is good [11:50] MonicaMarlo Martinek: and that would be an extensible list, so someone could come and say :we fit these objectives, so that fits what we;re trying to do ., Always be [11:50] MonicaMarlo Martinek: flexible to extending those objectives when someone comes to us with great ideas that may be out of the box, but have level of objectives to meet [11:51] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Asking Paula to plug the mic back in, folks are talking [11:51] Olivia Hotshot: Burning Life is about to open in 9 minutes and my IMs are going bonkers [11:52] Olivia Hotshot: or i mean Burn2 *sighs* [11:52] MonicaMarlo Martinek: JIm is talking about meeting with OSU OSL next week, but also talking with Auckland, Rapano, etc. to try and find a pool of data to drive our meta conversation " is this the right model we want>" But lets build a proto.... (there's sound) [11:52] MonicaMarlo Martinek: can you folks hear? [11:52] Olivia Hotshot: yes [11:52] Olivia Hotshot: clear too [11:52] MonicaMarlo Martinek: We are happy to bring your voice into the world if you have something to say, just let us know. [11:53] MonicaMarlo Martinek: (remind them to look at their screens too ;)) [11:54] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Jim is saing "want to talk to reaction grid, etc to find out what their thoughts are for linking with the outside world- writing down for notes sake [11:55] Shandily Wycliffe: ok, we need to capture todays minutes, schedule a new meeting, have people assigned to report back what they are doing [11:55] MonicaMarlo Martinek: WB is going to interface with Aaron Walsh and ieD group, and get specs if he can to share with the group [11:55] MonicaMarlo Martinek: as well as AJ for Auckland Group [11:56] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Beav talking about OSU OSL discussion re: dispelling myths about the cost of SL even during hike. [11:57] Profdan Netizen: sound dropped out? [11:58] MonicaMarlo Martinek: One sec, John D (Beav) is talking, I;m trying to capture his concerns succinctly [11:58] MonicaMarlo Martinek: he is worried that if we go straight to OSU OSL, we are moving outside of a department at OSU that may lose funding, etc. [11:59] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Ruby and I suggested we work with OSU OSL to get an opensim instance to test on because we have an excellent history working with Greg Lund Chaix at OSU OSL [11:59] MonicaMarlo Martinek: (We being CCs in Oregon) [12:00] Profdan Netizen: 150 a month? [12:00] MonicaMarlo Martinek: but from my perspective, again, funding.. politic.. I;m not married to one group or another, and I dont want to do anything that may limit opportunities in any way [12:00] Profdan Netizen: How's that compare to what you pay for LMS? [12:01] MonicaMarlo Martinek: lets see, for PCC, thats... 150 versus 5K ;) [12:01] Profdan Netizen: lol [12:03] MonicaMarlo Martinek: ((note to self- ask everyone to bring a headset and live transcribe the next meeting ;)) [12:04] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Jonathon is saying what if we helped everyone move beyond OpenSim and then share space in SL? Is this a possibility> [12:04] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Beav: to join may take a minor fee, that would help pay for group space> [12:05] Olivia Hotshot: Hey Folks, i have to scoot off. I am so happy to have met you all and want to continue to stay in touch. Will look for the gmail. [12:05] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Thank you Olivia! [12:05] Olivia Hotshot: unedited photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/oliviahotshot/sets/72157625052032721/with/5086658171/ [12:05] MonicaMarlo Martinek: It is noon, I think we will wrap up shortly [12:05] Olivia Hotshot: will clean them up this afternoon [12:05] Wainbrave Bernal: thanks Oly! [12:05] Olivia Hotshot: Bye !! [12:05] Wainbrave Bernal: ttys [12:05] MonicaMarlo Martinek: *wave* [12:05] Wrenaria Antiesse: bye Olivia! [12:05] Olivia Hotshot: Monday 10am Jon [12:05] Olivia Hotshot: if you can [12:05] Olivia Hotshot: bye!! [12:06] MonicaMarlo Martinek: Doodle will be used for the next meeting, send emails to jonathonrichter at gmail dot com to be added to the listserve. [12:06] MonicaMarlo Martinek: serv [12:06] MonicaMarlo Martinek: I think that's it. :